Eugene firm building solar hot water systems

As some of the comments are about me, i figured I would answer some of them.

Interesting comments. Everyone is certainly entitled to their opinion.

Yes, we wanted to manufacture a less expensive unit 4 years ago. Ideally when we sell in high quantities the price will come down. I could make it for about $400 cheaper if I bought all the parts in China, but I chose not to do this, I like to do as much as the work locally as I can.

 There are many different electric companies that have varying incentives for energy efficiency, renewables, low interest loans and other big bad govt. subsidies  and hand outs, for different technologies that help society use energy more efficiently. These provide different societal benefits: more efficient transportation saves importing fuel from unstable regions of the world, which costs our military a lot of money and grief. Saving electricity saves coal, not as much for EWEB, obviously, certainly a lot for Pacific Corp and PGE customers whose electricity comes primarily from coal powered generation. Coal is used in about half of the electricity production in the U.S. Working to make our economy, homes and business's more efficient helps us become more competitive, live in more comfortable houses and has many other benefits.

  Naturally the writers of the comments would think Global Warming is a Hoax, but irregardless of anyone's scientific bent, saving energy is better for our environment than using it. Burning coal, simply is not a good thing for the environment in the short or the long term. Byproducts include Mercury in the air, particulates, CO2, Acid Rain, and the apparent long term effects of global warming.

 Solar, both water heating and electric systems are expensive and are subsidized by various levels of the big bad government. The same is true for the Nuclear industry, Oil industry, Coal, Natural Gas... and practically all other types of energy in the U.S. If there were no subsidies of any type, we would all be paying a lot more for energy and we would have done a lot more energy efficiency a long time ago in the U.S.

 The residential energy costs for EWEB according to http://www.eweb.org/electricrates/residentialservicedepending

on individual energy use is a low of .08/kwh with the delivery charge and a high of .11/kwh. Rates for residential customers of PGE and Pacific Corp are about .10/kwh. There are other utilities with various rates in the state.According to our very expensive and extensive testing at the Solar Rating Certification Corporation (SRCC), in the Willamette Valley in Oregon, with typical hot water use and electric water heaters, our solar water saves @2200 kwh/year or about $220  (at .10/kwh, obviously less at lower rates) at today's typical  electric rates. At an average installed cost of $5,000, if electric rates do not rise, there is a 22.72 year simple payback, which of course is way too long. Energy savings in southern Oregon and Eastern Oregon are up to about 2,600 kwh/year.

  With a state tax credits of .60/kwh, this reduces the cost by $1,320. If anyone doesn't like the idea of state tax credits for solar water heaters, please feel free to lobby the legislature to get rid of all tax credits, or simply don't apply for the tax credit.The federal tax credit is 30% of the cost, after any utility incentives. If there is a utility, such as EWEB without any incentives for solar water heaters, then the federal tax credit would be $1,200. If you live in a utility like Pacific Power where the incentive varies from about $600 to $1,000 (they are in the midst of changing this), then you would get less federal tax credits. If you don't like federal tax credits, feel free to lobby congress to abolish all tax credits. If you start with subsidies to the Oil companies and the Nuclear Industry, then I would agree with you. Utility incentives vary from $0 to at most $1,000, depending on which electric utility serves you. At the end of the day the simple payback would be a low of 7 years in Pacific Power to 12 years with EWEB low rates and 9 years with EWEB high rates (this depends on your energy usage).Again this includes incentives and tax credits (and does not include any fees or interest).

 Rather than getting so bent out of shape about our product, luckily in a democratic society one has the right to first not buy a product, and then if you do, to not take any incentives or tax credits if you don't agree with them. 7 to 12 years isn't the greatest payback, but how long will you live in your house, how long will people live in the house after you? Will this add value to your house? What is the payback of $3 cups of coffee, or the payback of a 50” color TV. Should you just keep money in the bank and make a very insignificant amount of interest? Gamble on the stock market? How people spend their money is their choice.                                                       We always recommend that energy efficiency should be done before any, more expensive renewable energy projects are done. This is easy to say for many, but we back it up with over 110,000,000 kilowatt hours/ year our commercial and industrial customers save every year from our lighting products we manufacture in Eugene and have shipped out all over the NW and in dozens of states in the US, with almost 70,000 of our lighting fixtures sold.  Over 15 years of energy efficient lighting retrofits for thousands of customers, including US Embassies around the world adds up to 110,000,000 kilowatt hours saved per year in total.

  The writer who bet I was on PERS... would lose that bet. I was a Firefighter/Paramedic for 9 years, we didn't get any retirement for the first years I worked. When I left  after 9 years and about 2,000 car accidents, 200 or 300 cardiac arrests...to manufacture solar water heaters I spent the little PERS I had accumulated. (foolish in hindsight, naturally). 

 

Peter

 

Permit some clarity to another badly written article by KVAL:

 

In February 2009 http://special.registerguard.com/turin/2009/feb/24/company-to-build-solar-units/ Greenberg stated he'd hoped to sell the units for $4000 and, with the stipulated $2800 in tax credits, suggested the units would pay for themselves (to the buyer) in 4 years. Never mind that THAT math is defective, based on THIS article's suggested savings (from the mouth of the owner, or maybe energy in '09 was 30% higher...I can't recall), notwithstanding other commenters' observations about how it pencils out (not)...

 

...Seriously: Who in their right mind would invest $$ in such a company? No apologies for my berating language here: There should be NO PLACE for publicly-subsidized business in this state or anywhere else. This guy is in business to profit off of tax subsidies.

 

Does anyone else have a problem with this defective business model? Besides, my question is: If the expected payback is 20 years at today's energy rates, is the unti guaranteed to be maintenance-free and corrosion-proof for that MINIMUM term? If not, buying one is purely an emotional decision.

 

That's everyone's right, but I choose not to subsidize another's emotions based on political decisions marketing policy on unproved or inaccurate information/facts/science.

It's called conceptual skills and ability.  Never mind the facts or the future, it sounds good, feels good, is politically correct, it has to be the correct thing to do.  It's kind of like electric cars, they are so expensive no one will buy them, so what do we end up with, the idea to get gas so expensive it will force people to change or go bankrupt.  Tax credits, ha!, the only people who ever get those are the people who can already afford the expensive "green" stuff.  The average person in the private sector can't afford all this stuff, we have to calculate what the long term benefit is.  I bet the guy is  on PERS.

Solar heating, is a plus in many ways. grew up using it myself, in the southern united states . the home was built in the 1920's and the solar panel was removed by me, at my elderly mother's request, during the mid 1990's, ( it begin to leak, and there were no local service repair businesses in the area at that time.)  A small under the counter ( half pint, i called it ) electric water heater was purchased from Sears, and there was a noticable increase in my now deceased mother's monthly electric bill . The family at times consisted of six of us living at home, the solar system worked very well for all those years,and provided ample hot, to warm water,of course this was in the state of Florida. 

We pay what about 6.5 cents in Eugene, not 10. Seems odd, a local business and a local news outlet, why wouldn't you be reporting on the local value?

next thing ya know OBAMA will be sending him millons to go bankrupt with.

You mean I can spend five thousand dollars, right now, to save two hundred a year?!? Why that might possibly be the most fiscally efficient thing I've ever heard of. Why not give all your money to Jimmy Buffett's step brother?Seriously, who is this guy doing down on at KVAL to get this kind of advertising? Ty Steele? Color me unsurprised.