Did a baker break the law when he denied service to same-sex couple?
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GRESHAM, Ore. -- A Gresham baker is the subject of a state investigation after he refused to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple.
Did Sweet Cakes owner Aaron Klein violate the law when he told the couple that he couldn’t sell them a cake because “they were abominations to the Lord?”
That’s what Oregon Attorney General's civil enforcement officers are looking into after one of the brides-to-be filed a complaint on Jan. 28.
The woman who filed the complaint said she had previously bought a cake from Sweet Cakes for her mother’s wedding. It was fine. But when her partner went back for their wedding cake on Jan. 17, the owner refused.
Klein on Friday denied making the harsh statement, but admitted to a KATU reporter on camera that he did deny her service.
“I apologized for wasting their time and said we don’t do same-sex marriages,” he said. I “honestly did not mean to hurt anybody, didn’t mean to make anybody upset, (it’s) just something I believe in very strongly.”
But beliefs aren’t enough to cover him under state law. The Oregon Equality Act of 2007 prohibits discrimination against people based on their sexual orientation and gender identity. The statute includes public accommodations, such as businesses.
Klein emphasized the importance of his religious beliefs, saying it outweighs his bottom line and the state law.
“If I have to be to, I guess, be penalized for my beliefs, then I guess, well, that’ll be what it is,” he said.
The question now: whether his constitutional rights outweigh state statute.
“My First Amendment rights allow me to practice my religion as I see it,” Klein said.
We asked Portland attorney Paula Barran whether this case falls under the 2007 statute. She said it did, but added that she did not know how the owner’s religious beliefs would factor in.
“Statutes don’t get to overcome constitutional protections, so if somebody had a religious-based reason for wanting not to trade with somebody, I think you have a really interesting test case for whether or not a statute like this can apply,” Barran said.
There is no exception under the state's anti-discrimination law for religious beliefs. Ultimately, the case would be up for a judge to decide.
The woman who filed the complaint declined to comment to KATU until she receives further legal advice.
I agree with the bakers decision to deny selling or making the cake.He should not be forced by anyone to do what to him is against his beliefs or his religion.He has rights too,and they have been around a hell of a lot longer.If he were to deny helping a thief or other criminal would he still be subject to discrimination?Of course not!The baker sees this situation the same as committing a crime if he were to comply with the request for the cake.Constitutional rights seem to be meaning less and less all the time.They worked very well for us all these years,and now we have a bunch of idiots that keep adding amendments and or changing them to suit themselves with careless abandonment.And what are we getting in return?A bunch of crap that should not be allowed in our society that our forefathers knew enough not to make into laws in the first place.
Please read the info on this link as it may be helpful.
http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/restaurants-right-to-refuse-service.html
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The sign on the door says: "We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone".
I may just go buy a cake from this guy, he has my support 100%. political correctness is being slammed down our throats. the law is so willing to protect what the "alternative lifestyle" believes in, but has no consideration of peoples religious beliefs... unless you're a muslim of course.
 @Ian Homophobia isn't a religious belief. It is simply a manifestation of repressed homosexuality.
@DisplayName @Ian --Chickens (especially roosters) scare the hell out of me, does this mean I have repressed feelings of beastiality? Heard they were the closest living species to their distant ancestor the T-rex.
I also heard about a guy who slept with Big Bird, and got: "Chirpies, a Canarial Disease, that is Untweetable!"
@Ian ---I usually see that sign at rowdy bars, and that means that the bartender is the law. If (s)he asks a person to leave (w/o any reason whatsoever), and that person does not leave reasonably soon enough, the customer will often be arrested for criminal tresspassing, if they are still there after the police show up.
That sign is for protecting other customers who don't want to listen to a bigot like Vic Morrow in the 1st segment of the Twilight Zone (Time Out).
The signs INTENT is certainly not to protect the bigot from other customers.
It is reasonable to presume that the baker felt that he might disturb other customers and/or his reputation by making such a cake for an openly gay wedding.
Things could have gotten rowdy if he DID make the cake, depending on the neighborhood of repeat customers he caters too.
So, he should have refused to make the cake w/o giving a reason.OR he could have legally offered a discount to all hetero wedding cakes while charging more for same sex wedding cakes.Â
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Yes you do have a right to chose who you sell to. What if someone want a cake of a guy and a goat. Â It is a personal business, if he decides he does not agree, you go somewhere else. For a little while we still have to right to do what we feel right about doing. Â Don't go to the guy if you don't like his views, but he should not be made to go against his views.
 @c wacker If a guy ordered a cake from me cause he was marrying a goat, I'd ask him if he wanted it half chocolate and the other half carrot and oats.
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If what a person chooses to do in their own life causes me no harm, then I'm certainly not going to spend any time debating whether there choices are right or wrong. Â Plus, I didn't think it was our place to judge.
@c wacker ---all jokes aside, I do have an honest question as to whether beastiality could in anyway be considered a form of sexual orientation in states where it is otherwise illegal... Legal/living wills allow for bequeathing wealth to pets in most states...
I will spare everyone my toad joke, unless otherwise requested.Â
 @peace Almost undoubtedly not, since animals cannot give consent.
@PleaseBeSmart
---sounds fair enough to me. I would not want such a person in my store, especially if they were using my merchandise/consumptive goods in their filming/broadcasting out to cyberspace...
Apparently, asexuals and autosexuals are a protected class amoung the homo-hetero spectrum, which was why I brought this up after "c walker" posed the hilarious hypothetical of some guy and his goat.
 @peace Consent is needed for sex as well, not just marriage. So no, it really cannot be considered a form of sexual orientation anymore than someone who gets off on rape can say that's their orientation. I also don't know the full extent of laws regarding denial of service, so I have no idea if it would be allowed. I would think they could deny service, but I could be wrong about that.
@PleaseBeSmart --I was not refering to consent in marraige. Was just wondering if Lila and her dog Dobie of XXX the webcam channel could legally be thrown out of the bakery because the baker makes it known that he doesn't approve of beastiality?
only if the goat was gay?
Stranger walks into a bar and sees this really hairy guy at the end of the bar with funny eyes and a waddle under his neck.
All the other regulars are laughing, joking and swearing that the guy at the end of the bar has a mother that is in fact a nanny goat.
Stranger walks in disbelief to the end of the bar and says, "Those guys are just teasing you right? Your mother isn't really a nanny goat is she?"
"Na-a-a-aa!", says Billie.
You do not have the right to discriminate in a business that is open to the public. The baker chose to do that and is justifying his discrimination on his beliefs. We have made huge strides in our country by providing equal access to all and not allowing the beliefs of indiviuals to limit access. If he wants to sell cakes only to people of the same beliefs then he has the right to do that in a venue that is not open to the public. He gave up that right when the business was opened to the public and he agreed to the standards (and laws) of public accomodation.  And, no, the right to refuse service to anyone does not allow that right when it is used to discriminate toward a class of people.Â
These are the 18 states where refusing service to gay people is illegal: California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin (also in the District of Columbia).
Baker noticed something strange about these beautiful twins in his bakery "licking" the frosting off their cup cakes...
He says to a cop, "I can't serve those beautiful women in my bakery anymore, because I am sure that they are lesbians!"
Cop says, "How in God's name, can you tell that those beautiful twins are lesbians?"
Baker says, "They 'lick' alike"
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It is a Cake..noting more nothing  less. He is in the business to make cakes. So just make the Cake. People use any excuse to prove that they are Stupid
If you are reading this article and the comments associated with it, it should be clear to anyone the peril in trying to force people to think in a certain way. We were all born individuals with God given rights and the ability to think and to reason. We are witnessing first hand the awful decline in a society of reasonable hard working people, simply because some refuse to allow others the freedom of thinking the way they want to think. There is nothing in the Constitution that says your feelings shall not be hurt. There is nothing in the constitution that requires you to think in a certain way. If everyone would go about their business in a manner that they themselves would like to be treated, this problem would not exist. Stop with the labeling. Very few people will agree on everything 100 percent of the time so get over it, and be good to your fellow man or woman.Â
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souptonuts - it isn't about thinking, but about actions. People can think any way they wish, but their actions can not be discriminatory. Would you feel the same if he said I don't wish to serve African Americans, Jews or women?Â
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@Darrell Jabin It seems to me that a person should have the right to live their life in a morally and ethically right.And should not be forced to accept somone elses immoral or unethical beliefs.And for those who are living a life that is immoral it should not expect the morally and ethically correct majority of the people to live according to their standards.And it should not be a situation that forces our childeren into beleiving that it is the right thing to do.Our poiltions are affraid of losing a few votes so they are siding with the immoral(such as gays)It should not be so widely accepted as an open way of life.I think anyone who knows the difference between right and wrong should have the right to deny doing anything that incourages it.So the baker did the right thing by having the guts to do what our politions lack the guts to do.Some laws that are put in the records without the people having the chance to vote it down should not be a legally enforcable.Especially when it deals with morals or ethics,because our politions don't use any.  Â
 @DoRight LOL. You have no idea how horribly wrong you are about that constitution bit. But anyway, none of what you said has anything to do with my response. Our laws are not based on christian morality, as our nation is not based on Christianity. While we're on the subject of the Constitution though, why is it you believe homosexuals do not have the civil right to marry under the Equal Protection Clause? Just for argument sake, why did your god create so many homosexual and bisexual animals?Â
@PleaseBeSmart I find it hard to believe that God made all creation and among them he made a man and a women.I am quite certain it was for the intention them bonding to reproduce young for the growth of our planet.If he had something else in mind he would have created all men or all women.You sound like you must be a polition who views the constitution as a silly putty and can mold it to suit your self.
 @DoRight You seem to lack the basic understanding that morality and ethics are subjective. As a nation, our laws are not based on christian morality. And I'm sorry to burst your bubble, but polls have been showing for some time that the majority of Americans are in favor of same-sex marriage. Even if they weren't, homosexuals have a right to demand it constitutionally.Â
@Darrell Jabin Or whites, or Indians, or whatever. I wouldn't whine about it, I would just go elsewhere and so would my friends. Do you want another civil war in this country? I don't!
 @souptonuts I would agree with you on that.
@PleaseBeSmart I agree, but it isn't just that, it is a hundred other things that are dividing people, and there is not room on this post to list all of it. In my many years I can scarcely remember when the country was more divided, and uncivil. I am hopeful there was a time, but I can't recall if there was.
 @souptonuts That is about the last thing there's going to be a civil war over.
The right to refuse service is absolute. The couple is not entitled to his business' products or services. The only thing achieved out of this is more division and more hatred and more inequality. And, I blame BOTH OF THEM! A sense of legal righteousness in a victim-me culture accomplishes nothing but a perpetuation of every reason there is to hate people not like me. Does anyone really think a lawsuit will solve the greater problem even if he loses? Really? That's all you have? A legal victory? Congratulations...someone else still hates you an thinks you are an abomination! He should be less judgemental and they should be more respectful of his right to practice business in a manner which he feels is aligned with his personal beliefs.
 @No Victims Here amen
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 @No Victims Here Except that he doesn't have that "right," so there's no reason to be respectful of it.
Interesting!! I dont believe in paying taxes! I wonder how far will my strong beliefs take me coming April 15. You cant blame the couple. But for the love of all the gods, put your big girls panties on (at least one of you) and find yourself another bakery. As for the baker, there you go stupid... congratulations you just got free publicity while loosing customers!!
Apparently the baker can live without some customers,and he may lose a few who do not share in his beliefs,but will gain many who do.
 @DoRight In Portland? Not likely.
Honestly, my 9 year old neighbor is intelligent enough to have made the following comment; It's just a pretend wedding anyway, so why don't they just get a pretend cake???? She's right. As I said before, the state doesn't recognize the marriage. so, it is "just pretend".
Why is the state involved?? The state doesn't recognize same sex marriage, so isn't this just ridiculously hypocritical?
 @Debbra Salchenberg Harris They do recognize discrimination though.
 @PleaseBeSmart  @Debbra Salchenberg Harris Aghhhhh...but THEY discriminate! Why is it ANY different for this guy to do it? I'm not saying it's right or wrong...but shouldn't the standards be the same for everyone?
 @PleaseBeSmart My husband is agnostic and I am burnt on any organized religion and have been for years. When we got married we also chose a civil ceremony to reflect our beliefs. We still had a wedding cake and other trappings of a "traditional" ceremony...
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It always gets me that my marriage can be considered sanctioned because I feel in love with somebody of the opposite gender, but other people's marriages can't because of some THIRD PARTIES belief system... so messed up!
 @XoztedMama Absolutely. My husband and I were married by a Justice of the Peace in a civil ceremony completely devoid of religion. The practice of marriage predates recorded history.. Christians certainly do not have dibs on it! :)
 @PleaseBeSmart  @SwiftlyJust Thank you for bringing up "marriage in the eyes of the government". I get so frustrated when the argument is brought up that marriage is a religious institution... especially when they are trying to claim all marriages have to meet their religious points of view to be valid. Many different religions celebrate marriage. Also, those without religion celebrate marriage (either because of personal views or because of government benefits). There is not one religion out there that can claim the concept of marriage, or the word itself, as its own personal property.
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If you disagree (for whatever reason) with the people who are getting married, then do not attend the ceremony. At that point, that marriage will not effect you in any way. So why should you continue to cause issues for the couple getting married?
@PleaseBeSmart @SwiftlyJust >>>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCg1HO4UbTA<<<
 @SwiftlyJust Ah, gotcha. And no, the double standard is not right. But it's just a matter of time before it's changed due to the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. With equal protection of the law, anyone who is independently eligible to marry must be allowed to marry anyone else who is independently eligible to marry. By that I'm referring to marriage in the eyes of the government... religions are free to marry or deny whomever they choose.
 @PleaseBeSmart Sorry...when I said "they", I actually meant the government. Why is it okay for THEM to deny same sex marriage, but it isn't okay for a Baker to deny service? Personally, I believe that marriage is, and should be, between a woman and a man...but I strongly dislike the double standards that our government sets.
 @SwiftlyJust They who? And how?
You know what? It's only a cake- the 'brides' should just go someplace else instead of making such a big deal about it.
 @Fennforests Oh, but it's not just about the cake now. They instantly realized there could be money involved and went straight to a blood sucking attorney! Sad, but it might just cost that Christian couple their business.
 @Fennforests It is a big deal when businesses don't abide by discrimination laws. He is the one in the wrong, NOT the brides.
@PLEASE BE DUMB, YOU ARE NOT VERY SMART. tHE RIGHT TO REFUSE SERVICE BY A VENOR OR SERVICER IS ABSOLUTE. THE STATE WILL END UP PAYING ON THIS.Â
@SwiftlyJust @PleaseBeSmart @POSTALONE ---or unlock the screaming CAPS button.
 @PleaseBeSmart  @POSTALONE Besides, it's stupid to call someone else dumb when you can't even spell or punctuate!
@PleaseBeSmart @POSTALONE ---I just had to repay you for protecting me against that foul brute "Hts" who was bullying me to the point tears yesterday. LOL!
 @POSTALONE  Name calling is against the terms of use here, and it's just rude... so cut it out. And as peace pointed out, you are very wrong. This isn't even a grey area. Remember the government forcing businesses to serve blacks the same as whites, no matter the business owner's beliefs? In this state, this is the same thing.
@POSTALONE - you are claiming that someone is not very smart, but don.t seem to recognize that refusing service can not be used to discriminate against a class of people. Laws are in place to allow access to all and opening a busines that is open to the public means you accept the standards of public accomodation. I am certain that the bakery is handicapped accessible, but would it be okay, based on a belief of not wishing to support handicapped peoplle to not provide accessibilty? of course not!Â
@POSTALONE ---namecalling is wrong especially when you are wrong!
 These are the 18 states where refusing service to gay people is illegal: California, Connecticut, Hawaii, Illinois, Iowa, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Minnesota, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, OREGON, Rhode Island, Vermont, Washington and Wisconsin (also in the District of Columbia).