When is it legal to shoot to kill?
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PORTLAND, Ore. – The law is pretty clear: Few crimes justify using deadly force.
There have been recent cases of homeowners using deadly force on intruders. One man was exonerated, but the other was convicted because he crossed the line.
In October 2009 the owner of a Lewis County, Wash. house came face to face with a man on his stairs. The owner opened fire, killing the intruder. Sheriff Steve Mansfield said it was justified.
"He asked the intruder to stop his advance. He did not," Mansfield said. "After the second time, he chose to use deadly force."
Ron Louie was a former Hillsboro police chief and now teaches criminal justice courses at Portland Community College.
"The courts always hold your home is your castle," he said. "You fear for your life or the life of your family or others – that's what you have to articulate."
But you can still get into trouble using force inside your home.
Several years ago Keith Cramer of Sutherlin, Ore. began serving a year and half prison sentence after he shot and killed a stranger sleeping on his couch.
He wasn't justified because the intruder wasn't an immediate threat.
And outside your home the use of force is even harder to justify.
If you wanted to use a gun out on the street and you didn't want to get into trouble, someone would have to be attacking you, or you would have to be protecting others who were being attacked and you feared for their life.
Roger Witter ran into trouble with the law when he tried to stop two men who robbed a Gresham AT&T store by firing two shots into their car.
The thieves weren't wounded.
Prosecutors dropped charges against Witter only when he testified against the robbers.
On Tuesday morning police arrested 27-year-old Sean H. Doucette and charged him with second-
degree murder. According to court documents, witnesses told police that 19-year-old Iosif Dumitrash was walking away from a fight with Doucette when Doucette shot him several times, killing him.
Doucette's attorney said his client came home from work and saw Dumitrash breaking into his car.
The attorney said Doucette shot Dumitrash in self-defense when the two got into a physical fight.
If the case goes to trial, jurors will have to answer the question whether they believe Doucette reasonably feared for his life.
Police officers have more protection under the law when using deadly force because they are not allowed to retreat from a crime.
More information:
Oregon
When is it legal to shoot to kill?
Answer: Only when shooting yourself.
@godless anarchist     Â
Actually, the moment someone enters my house unlawfully. Sorry, I have two kids, and I'm not about to ask his/her intentions.
@mz ---even if it was a drunken, beautiful naked blond passed out on your sofa?
@mz ---LoL ;D You are certainly not the first guy to fall in love with a beautiful drunken  "nuder intruder"! ToGA! ToGA!
@peace
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Not sure my wife would appreciate that. (Actually, that's how we met.)
@godless anarchist ---But if you are a devout Catholic you could burn in hell for all eternity, since you will be unable to confess your mortal sin and fulfill penance before death.---Sister Mary Elephant
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I read lots of comments that just kind of make me scratch my head and wonder what has happened in the lives of some people to make them say the things they say. Not saying they don't have the right to say anything they want, just hard to figure their thinking. First let me say that taking a life is serious, on a scale of 1 to 10 it is 10 serious. The last thing that most common sense people with a normal upbringing would want to do is kill someone. That being said there are times that it could be necessary to kill or be killed. I think that almost always those times are pretty clear. I packed a side arm for many years, and on many occasions could have legally used deadly force, but never did. I did not want the responsibility of causing someone to never breath again. Fortunately I was always able to find an alternative solution. If you can find an alternative solution to your peril, take it, don't shoot, but also don't put your life in the hands of a criminal. If you can safely get away, no television, car or anything else that can be replaced is worth killing someone for. Your life or a loved ones life is a different matter, but escape if you can, you won't regret your actions. Killing is always a last resort. Just remember if you ever point the business end of a firearm at another human being, (even the lowest for of human), you can't reverse your action once the powder is ignited. I will do what I have to do, but will always seek an out.
@souptonuts ---thanks for sharing your serious and vitally informative considerations. Only thing I could think of to add to them for the non-cop holder of a gun (who may legally retreat) with an itchy trigger finger, is the revenge factor from the loved ones of the person shot. Spending the rest of life feeling guilty OR imprisoned AND worrying about the comeupance/vengance in/out of jail can be an hellish destiny of too many trigger happy vigilantes or citizens arrest crusaders.Â
I also must say, that too many people (and their friends/neighbors & loved ones) who post have been victimized by so much crime and are quite eager to blow off steam, by CASUALLY talking about blowing away somebody. It is cathartic for me to read&post such comments myself, especially after too much booze. But, the sober reality is far different.
And, I thank you again for reminding me, just in case reality and fantasy get too blurry. Â
Given that our prisons are letting even measure 11 felons out, and our governments are wasting money on sister cities, "business trips" around the world, junkets to DC to hob nob with fellow "thieves", therefore ALL criminals caught in the act should be fair game by the victim for a double tap .
If I catch them in my house its two in the chest and one in the head.
@Phillip Kight --- the one in the head for all of the people in the neighborhood he was "thinking" about burglarizing.
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@PleaseBeSmart @Hts ---thanks for scolding Hts. He almost made me cry.
 @Hts Your name calling is not welcome here.
Hts calling people idiots and cowards. So grouchy in the morning? Does Hts stand for Hatefilled thorny sh-something?
@Hts or you will shoot me?
"when is it legal to shoot to kill". The correct answer to this would be never. It is never legal to intend to kill someone even in justification. The better way to word it which is always how you should word it if the situation should ever come up for you and your family is "I continued to shoot until the threat was gone" Police officers are trained to nuetrilize a threat not kill someone. A person protecting themselves, their family or an innocent person should never act to kill they should only act to stop the threat, nothing more.Â
Shot a stranger sleeping on his sofa? Merciless! That must have woken him up, however briefly, before he took "the big sleep".
I think I have the winning theme for the "Simpson's Couch Scene" contest.Â
DumiTrash? Spoonerisms galore for this dead thief!
I drew my line in the sand the last time someone robed me. And if I have to put a bullet in the back of someones head as there running off with my stuff, well so be it. I'll bury there butt in the garden if I can't get justice from the just-us system. Hopefully it will never come to that.
 @RougeCoyote Coward. That's all I have to say. If you cannot shoot them while looking into their eyes, you are a coward.
 @Hts He never said he wouldn't shoot them if they were facing him.
@Hts @RougeCoyote ---but, some thieves wear sunglasses.
He caught the guy breaking into his car? Â I have no sympathy for thieves and I'm glad that piece of garbage is dead. Â The police ought to give the shooter a medal.
@Finewheels ---and deputize him with a higher caliber revolver.
Laws on deadly force vary from state to state. In Oregon the person must be...Â
(1)Committing or attempting to commit a felony involving the use or threatened imminent use of physical force against a person;Â orÂ
(2)Committing or attempting to commit a burglary in a dwelling;Â orÂ
(3)Using or about to use unlawful deadly physical force against a person.Â
@PleaseBeSmart ---in my neighborhood, near the UofO, cars are getting broken into all of the time. My own roomie, twice in the last 3 months (shattering his window to get in). People are actually thinking about sleeping/hiding undetected in their car with a loaded hand gun just to catch one of the theives in the act. Will sleeping in the car constitute "a dwelling"? And, thus legally entitling the car owner to blow such scum away?
 @peace You should contact Oregon Firearm Federation for credible information, but I would think not. Unfortunately, our Castle Doctrine needs to be strengthened.Â
@PleaseBeSmart ---Thanks. Will do!
 @peace  @PleaseBeSmart No peace...This is the problem with Americans, stupidity. Dwelling is DEFINED as "a house, apartment, or place or place of residence" a car is defined as "an automobile or a vehicle that runs on rails"....
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In my opinion all those college students are doing is looking to shoot someone that they will be to chicken shit to shoot anyway. 99% of all big talkers on the web are just that. Talkers. When push came to shove, I would not want a one of you jokers with a gun in your hand, I know you would be a useless pile of flesh.
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@Hts --- dwelling---" A place where one resides or where you lay your head at night. "---American Heritage Dictionary
Breaking into a tent or a cardboard box someone is sleeping in can legally be considered a dwelling. I could cite legal pecedence, but a hostile jackass like you is not worth it.Â
@Hts @PleaseBeSmart ---I did not ask the new bee irritant Hts. I asked PBS. Hts just taking pot shots at people (s)he doesn't know anything about while hiding behind a new post is my definition of cowardice.
As for my roomie, he is anything but chicken. He could probably defend himself unarmed against someone like you holding a gun.
Make some Irish coffee and chill!
if i fear for my life or the life of my wife or daughter, i WILL use deadly force.
 @edwierd drescher As you should!